This post was originally a response to a series of questions posed on a forum.
How does one know if an INTP is in love?
IMHO, you won't know -- barring some very specific circumstances.
INTP's cannot bear to be where they are not wanted, in terms of romance.
(Although they can bear to be where they are not wanted for the
purpose of social experiment, to make a point, or to teach something to
others unrelated to romance.) So, I don't think someone would ever know
that their INTP was in love with them without first making in clear
that they wanted the INTP to love them by expressing their love first.
How might an INTP act?
Probably very close to the way that they always do. INTP's are subtle
up to the point that they feel wanted/safe with another and then they
turn silly. I'd like to validate your questions by saying that an
inability to know how an INTP feels is precisely because we tend to
actively hide our emotions to all but a select few who prove themselves
worthy and trustworthy.
You would have to truly study an INTP to find this out and if they are
worth that sort of study -- then, perhaps its likely that you are
interested in them. At which point, it's probably best to just tell
them straight out. It's really quite a beautiful system of weeding out
the folks who are just playing games.
We can tell when we're being studied, even if we can't tell when someone
likes/loves us. Game players aren't the types to stick with the
required authentic and consistent study of another person. And after
all, it's only fair because an INTP who is liking/loving you is surely
studying every little thing about you. We demand reciprocity because we
understand more than most the concept of futility (not having
reciprocity is disaster spells obvious disaster for a relationship), and
don't have the capacity to ride the emotional roller coaster that so
many other people seem to enjoy (to some degree not caring if the
relationship is ultimately successful -- but enjoying the ride).
What does love mean to you, as an INTP?
Love is knowing and doing what is in the best interest of someone.
Self-love is knowing and doing what is in the best interest of yourself.
Love of another is knowing and doing what is in the best interest of another.
If we are talking romantic love, then the element of sexual attraction
comes into the definition. Romantic love is knowing and doing what is
in the best interest of someone who is the object of your sexual desire.
The concept of studying the other person -- really taking pains to get
to know them on their terms -- comes into play in the "knowing" part. I
do not believe you can actually love a person that you do not really
know well, in that case you're loving who you think they are -- a
figment of your imagination.
The desire (feeling aspect of love) to do what is in the best interest
of the other person is included in the fact that you actually brought
that desire to fruition with action -- the proof of love is in the acts
associated with love itself.
Well, that pretty much sums up my thoughts in response to your questions.
There's also an excellent video on Youtube about this topic by dyingatheist18:
Sunday, November 4, 2012
Thursday, November 1, 2012
Romance - Push Me, Pull Me (Advice to Suitors)
So... this is one of the most annoying facets of dating relationships for me as an INTP female.
You know what I'm talking about... all the little tests to see if a girl's going to be clingy/demanding/disinterested/apathetic...
These are the sorts of behaviors that are typically used to determine how someone feels about another person. Clearly we all know the world would end if we just asked the person, or had to grow a pair, let the other person we were interested and face up to the idea of being rejected.
It might be because I feel awkward around other people most of the time, but isn't it so much more awkward to be interested in someone that doesn't know it than to just try it and see what happens? I mean, it's impossible to know if someone fits with another person in that way until they give it a shot.
Frankly as an INTP female... I can't tell if you're interested/playing games/just wanting to get laid unless you tell me. Basically, if you are doing the whole push-me, pull-me thing... you appear to me to be either: a narcissistic jerk who wants to use me for your pleasure giving me nothing of value in return, or a deceitful coward. I keep telling myself that this is a generally accepted method for most people to get the information without risking looking foolish -- but to me, you're being rude and ridiculous.
If you're playing games, you're in for a bit of shock. You'll likely get a polite, but disinterested response. And, if you continue -- You'll likely be confronted and then I'll not have much to do with you.
If you're only looking to get laid. Boy, did you pick the wrong girl! HaHa. I almost pity you.
If you're interested in me, either tell me straight out, or start trying to get emotionally and intellectually closer to me gradually and consistently. And eventually you _will_ have to tell me straight out. If you're not interested enough to say it -- then you're not interested enough for me to invest in you.
Relationships should be headed in one direction or the other. If you're inconsistent, I'll get bored and resentful. Make a decision and stick with it, unless there comes a point where you decide it isn't going to work. And then don't be surprised when I don't want to take you back later. For me, as someone who cannot easily ascertain the motivations of others, trust is important and is demonstrated by consistency.
If you're not sure.... then leave me alone, in terms of romance, until you decide you wanna' give it a try.
The bottom line is, INTP's are goal oriented.
I happen to be looking for a long-term committed relationship. If the guy isn't interested in at least consistently moving towards that goal as long as things work out -- then he can take a hike. To do otherwise is wasting both of our emotions and time, and will annoy me to the point of not wanting to be around you and not trusting you.
You know what I'm talking about... all the little tests to see if a girl's going to be clingy/demanding/disinterested/apathetic...
These are the sorts of behaviors that are typically used to determine how someone feels about another person. Clearly we all know the world would end if we just asked the person, or had to grow a pair, let the other person we were interested and face up to the idea of being rejected.
It might be because I feel awkward around other people most of the time, but isn't it so much more awkward to be interested in someone that doesn't know it than to just try it and see what happens? I mean, it's impossible to know if someone fits with another person in that way until they give it a shot.
Frankly as an INTP female... I can't tell if you're interested/playing games/just wanting to get laid unless you tell me. Basically, if you are doing the whole push-me, pull-me thing... you appear to me to be either: a narcissistic jerk who wants to use me for your pleasure giving me nothing of value in return, or a deceitful coward. I keep telling myself that this is a generally accepted method for most people to get the information without risking looking foolish -- but to me, you're being rude and ridiculous.
If you're playing games, you're in for a bit of shock. You'll likely get a polite, but disinterested response. And, if you continue -- You'll likely be confronted and then I'll not have much to do with you.
If you're only looking to get laid. Boy, did you pick the wrong girl! HaHa. I almost pity you.
If you're interested in me, either tell me straight out, or start trying to get emotionally and intellectually closer to me gradually and consistently. And eventually you _will_ have to tell me straight out. If you're not interested enough to say it -- then you're not interested enough for me to invest in you.
Relationships should be headed in one direction or the other. If you're inconsistent, I'll get bored and resentful. Make a decision and stick with it, unless there comes a point where you decide it isn't going to work. And then don't be surprised when I don't want to take you back later. For me, as someone who cannot easily ascertain the motivations of others, trust is important and is demonstrated by consistency.
If you're not sure.... then leave me alone, in terms of romance, until you decide you wanna' give it a try.
The bottom line is, INTP's are goal oriented.
I happen to be looking for a long-term committed relationship. If the guy isn't interested in at least consistently moving towards that goal as long as things work out -- then he can take a hike. To do otherwise is wasting both of our emotions and time, and will annoy me to the point of not wanting to be around you and not trusting you.
Sunday, October 28, 2012
My INTP Manifesto
At the heart of this INTP is an extreme need for authenticity. I am a person of intense passion and feeling, who has a keen handle on the concept of futility. I am internally open, honest, and authentic. I do not cherish, nor have the ability of some for self-deception. I cannot linger long in denial, even in times of crushing grief.
And, like anyone else who has had something fine and good their whole life, I'm simply incapable of accepting less. I do not keep to my internal world from coldness or arrogance -- as you may define it -- but because I have a mighty fine alternative to the deceitfulness of this world.
I feel the preciousness of time and do not desire to waste it on flirtatious games, the trappings of popular culture, or certain social or cultural norms that serve no purpose (other than to try to maintain power and control (itself an illusion) or to make a very few people very wealthy at the expense of others.)
I acknowledge that others cherish things like denial, pop culture, and the push-me pull-me nature of new romance. I am not so arrogant to attempt to impose honesty and transparency on others, and cannot accept less than my internal world offers. Therefore, with great sadness and disappointed longings to connect in a real and authentic way, I choose my own company over that of the self-deceiver -- a depressingly large subset of humanity.
So then, I am often lonely.
This INTP plunges usually fearlessly into any quest for the truth. I refuse to guard myself from the frightening and often saddening effects of experiencing this world, others, and even myself as it is, they are, and I am. But, I am also more richly rewarded when the truth encompasses love, happiness, pleasure, and what is good and right. I am able to enjoy these truths from a childlike perspective -- embracing these experiences more fully than most, because I am fully convinced of their truthfulness.
Most people do not have this depth of feeling -- having their pleasure dulled by cynicism concerning what is good. My cynicism is reserved only for the deceptive veneer of this world, not for things that are honestly good and true.
I am a "Tigger" that looks more like an "Eeyore" to you.
And, like anyone else who has had something fine and good their whole life, I'm simply incapable of accepting less. I do not keep to my internal world from coldness or arrogance -- as you may define it -- but because I have a mighty fine alternative to the deceitfulness of this world.
I feel the preciousness of time and do not desire to waste it on flirtatious games, the trappings of popular culture, or certain social or cultural norms that serve no purpose (other than to try to maintain power and control (itself an illusion) or to make a very few people very wealthy at the expense of others.)
I acknowledge that others cherish things like denial, pop culture, and the push-me pull-me nature of new romance. I am not so arrogant to attempt to impose honesty and transparency on others, and cannot accept less than my internal world offers. Therefore, with great sadness and disappointed longings to connect in a real and authentic way, I choose my own company over that of the self-deceiver -- a depressingly large subset of humanity.
So then, I am often lonely.
This INTP plunges usually fearlessly into any quest for the truth. I refuse to guard myself from the frightening and often saddening effects of experiencing this world, others, and even myself as it is, they are, and I am. But, I am also more richly rewarded when the truth encompasses love, happiness, pleasure, and what is good and right. I am able to enjoy these truths from a childlike perspective -- embracing these experiences more fully than most, because I am fully convinced of their truthfulness.
Most people do not have this depth of feeling -- having their pleasure dulled by cynicism concerning what is good. My cynicism is reserved only for the deceptive veneer of this world, not for things that are honestly good and true.
I am a "Tigger" that looks more like an "Eeyore" to you.
The Hated and the Misunderstood.
After reading the insightful, validating, and quite frankly, discouraging write up by Nancy J. Barger and Linda K. Kirby about the often detested mam-i-nal of the female INTP, I've decided to snuggle up to society's disdain for my combination of gender and personality and do what any level-headed misfit might do... start a blog.
If you've made it this far, it's probably best to go ahead and read the PDF:
http://typeandculture.org/Pages/C_papers93/9Barger_K.pdf
As you would discover if you took the time to read it, that there is evidence that Americans (men and women) dislike INTP women. Americans, and several other cultures, like their women ESFJ.
I appear to you to be the very antithesis of what you are looking for in a friend or lover. According to the paper you see me as:
You think that I could not be:
And..... you'd be wrong. The problem isn't that your experience is leading to the wrong observation (evasive, wary, tense), it's leading you to ascribe the wrong motivation (sulky, resentful, unfriendly). You are failing to understand that I seem evasive because I hate being given information I don't want and am trying not to burden you with myself, if you don't want to know. I seem wary because I already know that I am not the person you are seeking to be your friend or lover -- and am just waiting for you to discover that, hoping that you will prove me wrong. I am tense, because well... I'm in a fishbowl (research study) and folks are tapping on the glass (judging me as to whether or not they like me). I'm being watched for the sole purpose of being criticized. Bad enough to be a group of people -- which always feels like an experiment to me..... but to actually be in one... O.O
Oddly enough the adjectives that most accurately describe me out of both lists are: wary, tense, tolerant, appreciative, helpful, honest, sincere, sympathetic, and understanding. So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!! ;-)
If you've made it this far, it's probably best to go ahead and read the PDF:
http://typeandculture.org/Pages/C_papers93/9Barger_K.pdf
As you would discover if you took the time to read it, that there is evidence that Americans (men and women) dislike INTP women. Americans, and several other cultures, like their women ESFJ.
I appear to you to be the very antithesis of what you are looking for in a friend or lover. According to the paper you see me as:
- distrustful
- sulky
- evasive
- indifferent
- resentful
- defensive
- wary
- unfriendly
- and tense
You think that I could not be:
- tolerant
- appreciative
- helpful
- cooperative
- honest
- warm
- pleasant
- sincere
- sympathetic
- or understanding
And..... you'd be wrong. The problem isn't that your experience is leading to the wrong observation (evasive, wary, tense), it's leading you to ascribe the wrong motivation (sulky, resentful, unfriendly). You are failing to understand that I seem evasive because I hate being given information I don't want and am trying not to burden you with myself, if you don't want to know. I seem wary because I already know that I am not the person you are seeking to be your friend or lover -- and am just waiting for you to discover that, hoping that you will prove me wrong. I am tense, because well... I'm in a fishbowl (research study) and folks are tapping on the glass (judging me as to whether or not they like me). I'm being watched for the sole purpose of being criticized. Bad enough to be a group of people -- which always feels like an experiment to me..... but to actually be in one... O.O
Oddly enough the adjectives that most accurately describe me out of both lists are: wary, tense, tolerant, appreciative, helpful, honest, sincere, sympathetic, and understanding. So, stick that in your pipe and smoke it!!!! ;-)
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